Conquest from World PvP?

So the Blizzard LiveBlogging Q&A thing happened. Check out the transcript if you like. There was a lot of filler, but there was also some (panda) meat:

Comment From Eldacar
At Blizzcon Tom Chilton mentioned possible incentives for raiding enemy towns to encourage world PVP in mists, can Greg or Cory elaborate on this at all?

Mumper:
In regards to extra rewards for world pvp, we are contemplating the idea of increasing players conquest point caps by an extra 10-15%.

I am assuming they mean contemplating about the Conquest Cap being increased by 10-15% for just killing players in the world – and by extension, that world PvP kills will award Conquest points. If it is going to be possible to hit the Conquest Cap for just killing players in the world, sweet chocolate Christ you may want to evacuate PvP servers before the server transfer queue hits 14 days.

I am one of those players who chose PvP servers because I enjoyed the tension while leveling, and how it created meaningful cross-faction interaction. That is to say, if I saw a Horde out while in the world, there was something of a ritual taking place. We both would stop immediately, look towards each other, try to gauge intentions. Then I would do /wave. He would do /wave. We had exchanged something there, something tangible; an admission of mutual respect. “Even though I am trained to kill your kind, I am choosing not to. I cede to your sovereignty, if you cede to mine.” Those same actions might have occurred on a PvE server, but they wouldn’t mean anything.

Of course, those interactions were pretty rare. Auchindoun-US had a 3:1 Horde ratio for the longest time, so 95% of the encounters were attempted ganks (“attempted” because I quest as Ret in PvP gear, yo). Or outright griefing during holiday events, expansion releases, or in new patch content. When the Molten Front dailies and the Thrall quest came out, Alliance couldn’t reliably complete them for the first three days. I don’t have much taste for PvP servers anymore, so if I ever came back it would be rerolling/transfering to a PvE one.

Anyway, it is not confirmed or anything, but Conquest points from world PvP kills would solve world PvP pretty much overnight.

Comment From Guest
Hey there. Will Pandaria have a new Dalaran like city or will we be using the ones already existing ingame?

Mumper:
We will have separate player hubs for both the Horde and Alliance on Pandaria. Separate hubs means we do not have to make them sanctuary and will encourage world PVP. These hubs will have access to an AH, Bank and general vendors. Valor, conquest, profession and faction vendors will be scattered around the world to encourage travel.

Comment From Kubus
One of the current issues discouraging World pvp is the presence of highly overpowered guards around cities and hubs, 1-shotting anyone who engages in pvp. How will this be in MoP?

Mumper:
We know this is an issue in the current game and we plan to address it in Mists. We want to encourage world PVP, not make it a one-shot game for npc guards. This is one of the main reasons we decided to make two separate player hubs instead of a shared sanctuary.

And one more…

Comment From MattWedra
At Blizzcon it was mentioned that PvE Scenarios will be something that we will queue for…Will we be required to be in the area that the PvE Scenario will take place in order to queue, or will we be able to queue for them from the cities like we do for the Dungeon Finder. If they are instanced events how will this “get the players out into the world” other than standing around a specific area waiting for the queue to pop, or am I missing the idea?

Mumper:
We are planning to only let players queue for scenarios from specific spots in the world (where the scenario is located), not in the cities. We want players out in the world, not spamming the queue button in cities.

This should be some welcome news to the “you kids better go play outside” proponents. Not only will the separated Alliance/Horde hubs increase the frequency of faction raids (assuming these hubs are set up correctly), you also have mass groups of players hanging out at various points in the world to queue up for Scenarios (and likely group with who they find there instead of LFD). And, of course, groups of people hanging around being mostly distracted will be juicy PvP targets. One of the best places for free kills back in TBC was near those PvP gear/charter NPCs out in Nagrand, or near the tier 6.5 vendor on QD, for example.

Honestly, how well any of this works will come down to whether Conquest is awarded for world PvP kills or not. If it’s just plain honor for kills like normal, I dunno how effective any of this will really be. Probably about as effective as Molten Front PvP… which is to say not very much at all.

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Posted on October 28, 2011, in WoW and tagged , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 9 Comments.

  1. I balanced post comcluding with “I don’t know”. These are generally the best ;)

    I, too, am very doubtful. WoW has been designed away from world pvp for three expansions now. Resilience, flying mounts, battlegrounds practically eradicated it. The distinction of PvE/PvP servers made it difficult to manage. And WoW combat mechanics make it almost impossible to enjoy.

    What do you do if an arcane mage pops all cooldowns and trinkets and starts casting arcane blast at 40m ? During WotLk I often three-hittet people in this way. And I was stacking haste, not crit. My AB took significantly less than a second.

    But it seems to me like they would have to redesign half to game to make it work. This is not even mentioning the players base that has been formed by the last three expansions.

    That having said, I welcome the intend.

    • I’m not sure I follow the argument that resilience had any negative effect on world PvP. Without it, world encounters would be MUCH more imbalanced, and it would boil down to the old “raid or die” philosophy of the rich getting richer. Crafted PvP gear is easily obtainable, for those just getting started; PvP gear in general is more obtainable than any normal level of PvE in fact, which is why you see people “cheat” the ilevel requirements of LFD by wearing it.

      As for the combat mechanics of world PvP, yes, they are not and have never been balanced or particularly enjoyable IMO. Any world PvP proponent would tell you that is not the point, though. War is imbalanced, and sneak attacks rule the day. It is much more about demonstrating power than it is about meaningful challenge. If you enjoy the latter, Arenas are for you.

      • At the level of an individual fight World PvP is non-consensual by design. At the same time many players in WoW – even those on PvP servers – prefer PvE to PvP. You can think about that what you want. It’s the reality. To make those people take like 2x as much damage from other players in world PvP has conbsequences:
        The players complained – and I think they have a point. And these complains made the devs scale back world PvP. That is why resilience gear is not good for world PvP in practice.

        This reasoning is not affected by all arguments along the line of “non-consensual PvP is fun, if you play on a pvp server …” etc. These are all good points, but they can’t undo reality.

  2. Getting things correctly the first time around? Never happened before, and unlikely to happen this time too.

    Faction raids as “feature people do once for new achievement” is most likely.

    All-out pvp… world pvp… in serene Pandaria? Doesn’t sound likely.

    They’ll probably have to protect Minipetmon faction-based trainers/NPCs with those one-shot guards…

    • There has been every indication that the greater Alliance/Horde war will be turning Pandaria into a fantasy Vietnam. The mere existence of the Sha – a physical manifestation of hatred/violence that appears wherever conflict occurs – pretty much writes the expansion by itself.

  3. Didn’t they mentioned that VP will no longer be the way of choice for raiders to gear up or fill missing slots but that drops should again matter more. And they said that you’ll be able to earn VP no matter how you play the game, even with dailies.

    That probably means that VP and HP will be replaced with a single currency.

    If that’s the case the same will most likely happen with PvP.

    • Pretty sure they are sticking with the JP/VP and Honor/Conquest, because even if they allow you to get VP from daily quests (or Conquest from world PvP), there has to be a system in place to prevent the hoarding of VP/Conquest to purchase the newest gear once a patch is released. Instead of simply deleting everyone’s VP, the existence of JP allows them to down-shift it without anyone losing anything.

      • In my opinion the problem was not that you could buy a new item at the first day of the patch.

        The problem was that you had to start collecting VP an unknown amount of days in advance to collect an unknown amount of VP to buy an unknown amount if items for an unknown amount of VP as soon as they are released. Everythign else would be considered slacking… And that removed the fun out of buying items because you were never sure if you would restock fast enough.

        Blizzards down-shift solution is a very complicated solution and most player probably don’t understand it.

        It would be much easier to just remove VP and leave the cap of 4000 on the JP. There you go. Now you can restock 4000 points which doesn’t take that much time and you’ll be able to buy one new item as soon as the next patch is released. Problem solved.

        They only had to make it so complicated because they wanted to abuse the badge system to give extra rewards exclusively to raiders. The JP/VP system is designed to make it “mathematically” possible for everyone to buy everying but realisticly only raides will be able to buy stuff at a rate at which the game is still fun. Now, if the badge system is no longer abused to favor raiders, they can implement an easier solution.

  4. Heh, back in Vanilla, the first time they introduced rewards from PvP, there were no battlegrounds yet. My first character was level 49 on a PvP server, just inside the level range to be worth points to max-level 60s.

    It was a hellish nightmare. I died so much, that I deleted that character and rerolled Coriel on a PvE server.

    But at the same time, that’s what you sign up for on PvP server.