Zubon has a post up musing on Time to Effectiveness, in regards to how long it takes between starting the game and being at the point where your bullet hits for as much damage as a veteran’s bullet. You can contribute in EVE on Day 1 whereas a level 1 WoW character would be worse than useless in a raid of a capital city (via guard aggro).
The thing that interested me the most was when Zubon mentioned this:
For MMOs, this is indicative of the larger problem that you need to grind to play with your friends. MMOs are bad for playing with your friends. Their character advancement systems make it difficult to find a span within which you can bring veterans, newbies, alts, etc. together, and it only gets worse over time as the power differential between day one and the level cap grows. I played a bit of World of Warcraft but it never really caught me because I spent almost my entire time in that vast, lonely wasteland between level 1 and the cap.
If I play these games to play with my friends, I want to play with my friends. If I play these games to compete with other people, I want to compete on a level playing field.
I would immediately agree that playing progression-based games is difficult with your friends, even if you happen to live in the same house as them. Everyone has their different schedules and obligations; sometimes you feel like watching Game of Thrones instead of running another dungeon tonight, or whatever. Even if you have specific characters you use when in a group, you are essentially committing to leveling up twice, and basically consigning that friend-alt to progression limbo.
But do you know who it’s pretty easy to play with? “Friends,” i.e. the people you befriend in-game. I have been talking with the same handful of people I “met” in WoW pretty consistently for the last five years. And why would that be surprising? We all were playing the same MMO on basically the same schedule in the same manner, which is how we met in the first place; you couldn’t design a better friend/compatible person-sorting algorithm if you tried. Meanwhile, I only ever talk with my best friend IRL every few months. I met that best friend in Middle School by complete coincidence, and even though we are supremely compatible personality-wise, he just isn’t into PC gaming. With that plus distance plus schedules, the opportunities to play together would be pretty low.
All of which makes for rather conflicting design structures in many games. Friends and guilds are the social glue that keeps people playing games long after the novelty has worn out. If you start playing a game with friends, you might end up overlooking the deal-breakers that would otherwise cause you to abandon a game before the social hooks had time to sink in. On the other hand, the opposite problem can occur: if your friends don’t like the game but you do, you might end up either spending less time playing with them or quit the game to play whatever they’re playing.
So, objectively, the best outcome is quite possibly coming into the game with no friends and making some in-game instead. That way, the friends you are playing with are tailor-made to correspond with your playstyle, level of interest, and long-term goals. Plus, there is the added bonus of this particular game being “sticky,” insofar as it might be the only context in which you will get to enjoy your new friends’ company. Although I still talk with my former WoW guildmates, we really don’t have many other game preferences in common; the desire to re-subscribe to WoW to spend some non-Vent time with them is pretty strong.
In any case, as I have argued in the comments to Zubon’s post, this is pretty much a systemic problem inherent to RPGs and other games with character progression. The moment you commit to XP and levels is pretty much the same moment you commit to stratification, which by definition drives wedges between players. Unless, of course, you go ahead and make friends with those you find in your strata.
Fake Edit: Zubon and a few others have pointed out that other MMORPGs have solved this issue with scaling levels. The examples used were GW2, EVE, and City of Heroes. While I agree that the first two allow you to play together, they do not allow you to play together on the same level. Your Day 1 friend can tackle spaceships, but he/she is still stuck in a frigate while you’re flying around a supercarrier. It’s perfectly true that two friends can play the GW2 equivalent of BGs together (instant cap, full gear), but I really consider GW2’s sPvP system to be a completely separate game tacked on; it’s entirely possibly it’s changed in the last year, but unless there’s overlap between the two systems (e.g. you get XP/etc for doing sPvP) then I don’t see that as a solution. Chances are good that you bought GW2 in the first place to play the “real” game, e.g. the ones with levels and XP and such.
As for City of Heroes, I’ll have to take your word on it that there was meaningful character progression in an environment that perfectly scaled up and down. Because honestly that sounds like a complete contradiction in terms.
All of this is somewhat besides the point of this post though. It kinda doesn’t matter if you can play with the friends you brought into a game in a perfectly scaled environment, if they don’t match your own playing habits and level of interest in the new game. If you like City of Heroes and they don’t, then it really doesn’t matter how good the game is – your options are basically to quit, divide your time, or make new friends. Stratification makes the situation worse, of course, but it’s more of a symptom of a larger problem IMO.
Posted on May 14, 2014, in Philosophy and tagged Friends, Game Design, Guild, Progression, Stratification. Bookmark the permalink. 8 Comments.
The last GW2 feature patch has changed sPvP to allow you to earn XP, levels, gold and loot. We’re getting closer to the ideal where everyone can play as they prefer and still make account progress and be on a relatively horizontal playing field.
I may be an exception in that, while I’m sociable and friendly in MMOs I very definitely don’t play for either of those reasons. I play for my characters and for the gameplay. From the period when I was very sociable in MMOs and made many ‘friends’ back in around 2001-2007, my experience was that almost none of them remained interested in any particular MMO as long as I did and most of them didn’t remain interested in MMOs period. It was, and is, the games themselves and my loyalty to my characters that keep me logging in long after the ‘friends’ have moved on to the next new shiny.
I’ve found that existing friends are great for getting you into an MMO, but the friends you make while playing end up being the long term glue. I started playing WoW with two friends and it was fun levelling together… but less than a year later I wasn’t playing regularly with either of them as they had different in-game interests than me (basically one was more hardcore than me, the other one more casual), while I continued playing for another five years or so with the guild I had joined.
Same in SWTOR: I joined with some friends, nine months later they had all quit, but because I liked the game for what it was I joined another guild of people I didn’t know very well at the time, and that’s where I still am.
As a fairly casual player, I disagree that the people I cross-over in MMO are the best to play with.
Seeing someone is something essential for me, as I understand people only by seeing them, and not only hearing them – and still less by reading them. Thus my only real friends can be guys I can physically encounter, thus IRL friends.
I have joined a guild in GW2, and they are OK people. But I start to know them only 2 weeks ago, when I do a IRL afternoon with them !
Everyone is different , and I know that some people can have great friends at distance. But saying “the best people to play with in MMO are the MMO friends” is just not true for a big size of player.
Even if you don’t consider them real friends until you meet them IRL, it’s still more likely that they will be the consistent partners in your gameplay, yes? “Real” friends are better, but it’s pretty rare in my experience that the people you meet IRL just so happen to be perfectly compatible with how you play a given game.
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