Reddit Protests, pt 2
Almost a month ago, there were a series of protests on Reddit concerning a pivot to essentially ban all 3rd-party apps via charging a ridiculous amount for API calls. These 3rd-party apps were not just better from a user-perspective, they also made moderation easier (or even possible for blind users). However, these apps did not run ads, so the revenue (if any) Reddit received was minimal. There can be a debate as to whether the Reddit admins were “justified” in basically shutting them all down, but I think in the aggregate it is/was clear that a better approach of A) charging less, and B) giving the apps more time to adjust to changes would have cooled things down.
So, what is the status of Reddit two weeks after the implementation? Simmering to boil.
The subreddit blackouts clearly did not effect much change in of themselves. However, the admin overreaction to the blackouts – mainly in the form of threats and disparagement of mods – has emboldened said mods into new forms of malicious compliance. Seriously though, the Reddit CEO went on NBC and said this:
If you’re a politician or a business owner, you are accountable to your constituents. So a politician needs to be elected, and a business owner can be fired by its shareholders. And I think, on Reddit, the analogy is closer to the landed gentry: The people who get there first get to stay there and pass it down to their descendants, and that is not democratic.
“Landed gentry.” It is difficult to imagine a bigger slap in the face from someone who gets paid for what he does (spez) despite producing zero content, to all the unpaid (!!) mods who spend donate dozens/hundreds of hours of their time to ensure that subreddits aren’t just filled with trolls, hate-speech, and/or porn. According to this article, Reddit mods are (very conservatively) doing work worth $3.4 million per year. But, sure, they are all easily replaceable via “democratic processes.” Like… how?
The new front in the guerrilla protests is making subreddits NSFW. The notion is that by changing the classification to NSFW, Reddit will no longer be able to monetize that subreddit due to advertisers not wanting their product ad displayed next to something graphic. I have heard a few different arguments that this doesn’t actually work, e.g. ads are still displayed, but the reaction from the admins clearly suggests otherwise.

The first step was made by the mods of /r/interestingasfuck who basically all-but-encouraged their users to submit porn. Which they did. While I don’t believe it was a default subreddit, it does have 11.2 million subscribers, so what ended up happening was a flood of literal porn started appearing on peoples’ homepages. The Reddit admins quickly removed all the mods from the subreddit and essentially archived the whole place; there has not been a single new post there in 18 days. Presumably new mods will be installed via “democratic processes” at some point, but who knows when.
Other major subreddits are taking less explicit, but still hilarious routes. /r/Pics is default sub with over 30 million subscribers, for example, and the mods changed the subreddit rules such that “All posts must feature John Oliver.” This was done in a democratic fashion, just like the admins doubtlessly wanted. The mods also changed the overall subreddit category to NSFW with the justification that what constitutes NSFW by the admins themselves applies to the subreddit (profanity, potentially “offensive content”). Unfortunately, the admins have threatened the mods with removal for changing the subreddit category against its historical norms. While the mods are debating their next moves, they have let everyone know that all /r/Pics users can now label any post as NSFW.

True to their name, the mods on /r/madlads took it a step further and basically gave every one of their 1.7 million subscribers mod privileges. Now everyone is landed gentry! /r/politicalhumor did it too with their 1.6 million subscribers, but it’s less funny.
The admin threats do appear to be resonating in some ironic circles. For example, /r/NonCredibleDefense flipped back to SFW despite the purpose of the subreddit being military memes that frequently display graphic blood/gore. /r/DnDMemes mods also blinked, despite demanding an Intimidation check from spez. There will still be goblin smut and related porn allowed there, but apparently all is well as long as the individual posts are labeled NSFW.
The fundamental issue is that mods are not (easily) replaceable, but neither are the communities. Back in the day, there was a lot of concern that when /r/FatPeopleHate or /r/the_donald got banned, there would be “contagion” insofar as the users would migrate and infiltrate other subs. This basically didn’t happen – deplatforming works.
A 2017 study published in the journal Proceedings of the ACM on Human-Computer Interaction, examining “the causal effects of the ban on both participating users and affected communities,” found that “the ban served a number of useful purposes for Reddit” and that “Users participating in the banned subreddits either left the site or (for those who remained) dramatically reduced their hate speech usage. Communities that inherited the displaced activity of these users did not suffer from an increase in hate speech.”[12]
When you zoom into a micro level with just your own life, it makes sense. How you act with one set of friends is typically different than how you would act with a spouse, your extended family, work friends, etc. Everyone has masks for every occasion. So, I do not begrudge the mods who blinked in the face of potential subreddit annihilation, as there are often times nowhere else to go.
As with Phase 1 of the protests, we will have to see where things end up with Phase 2. Is it another flash in the pan, to be smothered by the wet towel of admin threats? Or will things continue to boil under the surface, with mods “laying flat” and/or “quiet quitting” and/or “acting their wage”? And what of the meat of Reddit, the user-submitted content? Will people get over it and move on to the next meme, or have things been permanently overcooked?
I myself have deigned to download the official Reddit app so as to continue consuming memes and information away from my PC. Amusingly the 3rd-party Reddit is Fun app still technically works, but I cannot log in, so all I see is the myriad of default subreddits and popular posts with no customization possible. Which means it is functionally useless to me. I have been following Wilhelm’s reviews of other social media sites with interest though, to see if any might possibly be an overall Reddit replacement despite not really being advertised as such. Discord sure as shit ain’t it, after all.
But as mentioned earlier, it’s likely that no replacement is possible. Both Reddit and Twitter are apparently not profitable as-is, so who in the world is going to try (and succeed) at making a replacement? I mean, other than the half-dozen venture capitalists doing exactly that. I have the various subreddits I enjoy but I am not married to them to the same degree that mods might be. If something is better, I will go there today. Unfortunately, it’s looking more like “you get what you get, and you won’t throw (much of) a fit.”
Posted on July 10, 2023, in Commentary and tagged Deplatforming, Malicious Compliance, NSFW, Protest, Reddit, Slap in the Face. Bookmark the permalink. 8 Comments.
Since this all started the overall quality of Reddit has dropped for me, I’m seeing less stuff in the main feed that interests me and more stuff that does not. At some point that just leads to using the platform less, and we know how that goes.
For specific subs its mostly the same as before, but those are all niche-specific (Warhammer 40k, LoL TFT) and I don’t spend nearly as much time on those as general reddit.
LikeLike
Agreed. Even disregarding protest posts, it appears that every 12th post on the official app is an ad for me. And each ad, of course, appears almost indistinguishable from any other post aside from a small “Promoted” label in 8pt gray text. So that’s 8.3% of all content I see being advertising, notwithstanding the fact that I have to scrutinize every post before clicking to see if its actually an ad, so I end up wasting even more time.
LikeLike
When Apollo stopped working I never downloaded the Reddit app, so this whole thing has decreased my Reddit usage by like 90%. Thanks, I guess. It seems like an unforced error too. The third party app devs all acknowledged it was reasonable to charge for the API and that they expected it to happen at some point, Reddit just went about it the worst way possible.
LikeLike
I tried to do some research as to what a “reasonable” API call price would be, but the closest estimation I could find was that, essentially, Reddit was charging 3.6x more than actual costs. The Apollo dev had stated it was 72x more, but he was apparently using the special pricing he was grandfathered in at, although that is neither here nor there.
None of this had to go down this way, which either means Reddit is trying to kill all 3rd-party apps for whatever reason (seems to be obvious), or they are just that grossly incompetent (also seems to be the case).
LikeLike
As someone who uses reddit for specific info and not as a general browsing/community thing, nor do I use 3rd party apps, all of this felt like a power trip from mods who wanted their cake and eat it to. In my opinion if the mods felt reddit did not cater to what they wanted through apps, they should’ve quit and let subreddits select new mods and let time prove moderation is impossible without apps instead of hanging on to power and instead blackouting stuff one-sidedly while still staying mods, even after capitulating. I don’t blame reddit to want to improve monetisation even if I personally do not like it.
The lockout was a soft nuisance and I am happy it got undone, mainly for the knowledge repository.
I fully support people hating the changes and not using reddit btw, just the mods deciding for the other users is what bothered me.
LikeLike
I’m fine with the “power tripping” because it highlights how nonsensical the entire edifice is. Spez characterized mods as landed gentry – and that is basically true – but the admins built it that way. Moderation has never been a democratic process; it has always been “whoever creates the subreddit gets 100% control forever.” Even in real scenarios where mods have sabotaged a sub or abdicated, admins have done nothing to address things themselves. It’s why /r/anime_titties/ is actually a serious subreddit about world politics, because /r/worldpolitics descended into anarchy (and hentai) after mods gave up. Where was the admin action then?
It’s very clear that the admins are laser-focused on one thing: the Reddit IPO slated for this year. Once they get that payday, they’ll cash out and be done. Between the loss of mod tools and future shareholder concerns sucking all the oxygen out of the room, I recommend coming up some kind of exit strategy for whatever “knowledge repository” you still find useful. It won’t take much for information like that to be gone forever.
LikeLike
Sadly enough, no backup is possible. Obscure game issues and tech problem shooting are basically reddit territory.
LikeLike
In many places, ads aren’t there to make money but to annoy you enough to make you pay a fee to get rid of them.
How much would youtube make from me if I would turn off ublock origin? Maybe $0.10 a month? But youtube prime costs something like $10 a month. Same with many mobile games where you have to pay $10 or more a month to get rid of ads when they probably make less than $0.10 the entire time a play it.
Ads is never a working business model – which makes it even stranger that reddit destroyed every opportunity to make money with that move.
LikeLike