[Cyberpunk 2077] Terrible Design

Cyberpunk 2077 has undergone a ton of changes since its disastrous launch. I was not keeping track of everything they fixed and tweaked, but suffice it to say, there was a lot. Some of which was immediately indicative of… well, idiot designers. That may sound harsh but let me give you an example: there is an early talent (Dagger Dealer) that allows you to throw your equipped knives. What was missing from the launch of the game until literally February of this year was any way to retrieve your thrown knives. Some designer thought this talent up and some programmer put it into a game where there are legendary knives, and no one thought that maybe losing them forever was a bad idea? Again, this was fixed in version 1.5 which I am currently playing. But the fact that it was even a thing outside of alpha is mind-boggling.

What I am coming to understand is that Dagger Dealer is a symptom of deeper issues.

Historical screenshot for the lols. In 1.5 they magically come back after a few seconds.

The overall leveling system is just a mess. You gain XP and gain character levels, which grant you Perk points and occasionally Attribute points. The latter are very important because they determine the maximum level of perk you can select within that Attribute. Additionally, each Attribute has multiple Skill Trees associated with it. So for example, the Reflexes Attribute contains the Assault, Blades, and Handguns trees, each of which contain 17-20 Perks that can have multiple tiers.

BUT WAIT, THERE’S MORE! Each Skill tree has its own XP meter that increases by utilizing that specific Skill in various ways. The more you use Handguns, the more Handgun XP you generate, and eventually you work your way down the reward track up to the limit of the Attribute. The rewards are usually little enhancements (Recoil reduction on Handguns, etc) but sometimes they are Perk points which you can actually assign anywhere. While that could lead to some interesting decisions wherein you start farming Blade XP to generate extra Perk points to put into Handguns or whatever, the emphasis should not deviate from the word “farm.” Because that is what it takes.

All of that may sound complicated, but none of it is particularly interesting.

I could live with all the overcomplicated shenanigans, but what I cannot stand is a Talent/Perk/Skill system with so few synergies. It is like the designers didn’t even try. I scoured the various trees and the closest thing to interesting that popped up was a Reflexes 8 Perk in the Blades tree called Stuck Pig that increases Bleed duration by 3/6/9 seconds. That is notable not because it’s actually any good, but because there is no “inflicted by a Blade” qualifier to it. Some things other than Blades inflict Bleed, so that would be an interesting choice and/or build to work towards if Bleeds were your thing. If instead you put any Perk points into Handguns, well, all of them turn off the moment you equip anything else.

And, Jesus Christ, don’t get me started on the crafting system. Because I’m going to anyway.

Crafting is governed by the Technical Ability Attribute and subsequent perks in the Crafting Skill tree. The most important ones are those Perks that unlock the crafting of Rare (5), Epic (12), and Legendary (18) items. In many games, there is always a tension between player crafting and found loot: A) if crafting is better, why search for loot, vs B) if loot is better, why engage with crafting at all. Cyberpunk kicks this up a notch with Iconic gear – these are weapons/armor with unique effects that you can continually upgrade… provided you dump a bunch of Attribute points into Technical Ability. If you don’t, those Iconic items might be good for a mission or two before trash drops start dealing more damage.

A bargain at no price.

Aside from that, crafting largely sucks. You need to purchase weapon/armor “specs” from vendors to unlock the ability to craft that item in that specific tier. Just because you can craft a Rare sniper rifle does not mean you can craft the Epic version of the same sniper rifle, even if you unlocked Epic crafting via Perks. Also, the spec for that Sniper Rifle costs 75,000 credits which is just about what it costs to just purchase the Legendary version of that Sniper Rifle from the same vendor. At a certain point you can farm practically infinite amounts of credits via crafting anyway (purchase components, craft X gun, sell to vendor, cycle vendors), but the point is that the system as a whole makes no fucking sense. What was the harm with a more reasonable weapon spec cost? Woohoo, I get a “cheap” Epic Sniper Rifle by dumping Attribute and Perk Points into a tree that does not otherwise enhance my ability to deal damage with said Sniper Rifle. Christ, I bet that I would deal more damage with a trash-tier Sniper Rifle and those points spent in Reflexes instead.

By the way, Cyberpunk does feature a Respec button. The hilarious thing – in a comedy of errors sort of way – is that it only refunds Perk points, not Attribute points. Thus even though I am 40 hours deep into the game and realize how terrible Crafting has been for me, none of it matters because I can’t shuffle many of those points elsewhere because I’m limited based on Attributes, not Perks. I guess there is an argument that people would game the system by switching to a full Crafting build, upgrade all their shit, get infinite money, and then swap back to a weapon-specific build, but come on.

Know what else is disappointing? The cyberware parts of Cyberpunk. The game is predicated on body enhancements and everyone certainly looks the part. But the thing you find out after browsing a few Ripperdocs is that all the enhancements are… just random buffs locked behind Attribute gates. Sometimes you will find a common-tier upgrade not locked behind such a gate, but the vast majority are tied to your character’s Body or Reflexes Attribute, which means a Technical Ability/Intelligence character (cough) doesn’t have much to gain by cyberware. Which is really fucking bizarre, right? Compare that to how Deus Ex handles things – augments grant gameplay-changing abilities and are otherwise a big deal. In Cyberpunk, they are non-choices.

One of the few “interesting” cyberwares, and it disables your ability to use grenades. Because reasons.

Ultimately, that is the biggest disappointment of all: everything in Cyberpunk (outside of dialog) feels like a non-choice. Can you “choose” to build your character around using Shotguns and Katanas for roleplaying purposes? Sure. Place your Attribute and Perk points in the corresponding slots. But none of that is interesting. And to me, there is no such thing as an uninteresting choice – there are choices and mere decisions. You decide to use Shotguns, and everything else follows. Notwithstanding the banality of having to decide on a specific weapon to use in the first place, there is no room for synergy choices within Skill trees or trying different strategies once Attribute points have been committed.

I am not certain this part of Cyberpunk 2077 is fixable. Being able to Respec Attribute points would help, or perhaps granting more Attribute points overall. Perks would have be radically reworked to introduce synergies though, and I’m not certain designers who had to wait a year and half to noodle on how to fix throwing knives is up to the task.

Posted on August 16, 2022, in Impressions and tagged , , , , , . Bookmark the permalink. 9 Comments.

  1. Sounds a bit like The Secret World’s system but worse.

    I wouldn’t be surprised if someone – even many someones – saw that dagger thing, stared catatonically, and just decided they don’t give a toss. The amount of crunch thrown at that game by CD Projekt Red remains the stuff of legends. They got brigaded on Glassdoor. Konrad Tomaszkiewicz, the design director for the game, later resigned because, in his own words, “a lot of people are feeling fear, stress or discomfort when working with me.” Then they suffered that ransomware and code theft disaster. There probably comes a point when the bottom simply falls out.

    Also, just for fun, my answer is B. All else being equal, loot should have the higher quality ceiling, given RNG factors in obtaining it. One would still engage in crafting because it’s a way of seizing direct control of one’s power curve, which is inherently satisfying, but the reverse scenario only results in jolts of actual disappointment replacing the Skinner box of loot, which is the last thing you want.


    • Ha, I had forgotten about the crunch aspects surrounding Cyberpunk development. Almost makes me feel bad for bringing it up… but still. They should have either made that a generic infinite-knife or removed the Perk until they figured it out.

      I broadly agree that loot > crafting else you get into insular loops. For example, the devs for 7 Days to Die keep hacking away at this sort of thing, as it’s possible to become self-sufficient enough that you don’t need to scavenge zombified cities and otherwise engage with a lot of the other systems/tensions at work. I think their methods are getting a bit ham-fisted (you now need to find magazines to learn how to build anything), but I can sympathize.

      At the same time… ugh. Nothing worse than a half-assed, useless crafting system being bolted onto games just because. And in Cyberpunk, loot drops can have extra-special modifiers (50% less weapon sway, etc) that are impossible to craft the equivalents for. So crafting is basically there to give you infinite money, apparently.


  2. And yet you’ve sunk 40h into it, so it can’t be that bad?

    Honestly no snark intended, but with some recent experiences of “oh I kinda like this game” but after 10h still abandoning them, I’m only a little confused, not blaming you in any way.


    • Ha, no, that’s a fair point. Suffice to say, Cyberpunk is fun to play in spite of its terrible progression design. I’m almost to the point of deliberately stalling the main storyline so I can engage with minor gigs and random fights out in the world. Problem is that that inclination is fading, and the accumulation of character progression that would normally prop things up is failing hard.

      I should probably make a follow-up post about this topic.


    • I like this comment, because about a decade ago the standard contra-Azuriel line was that he doesn’t give games enough of a fair shake before criticising them. (RMAH-era D3, to pull out the main example.)

      Tempora mutantur.


  3. Hmmm in how is this different from any korean MMO grind system?
    I think you already talked about the skill based vs time based progression, and it’s quite clear that the second one is the best choice. You get more players who can play and you keep them for longer. For me the problem is that this approach is seeping in more and more in single-player games, sometimes you can circumvent it with mods, sometimes you can’t.


  4. Hi…I can tell you that I was blown away when I first opened the game. The buildings in Little China feel like they could actually belong in the real world, with the details in the 2-3 story buildings with clothes being dried on the windows and the canopies sticking out looking and feeling just authentic, and the ambiance of the footpaths at night matches my experiences real life. And the feeling that you’re surrounded by corporate high-rises intertwining and leaving just a little room to breathe is captured just right. This makes down cyberpunk 2077 ranking. Looking outside, seeing buildings covering the horizon, neon lights going as far as your eyes could see lighting up the entire street, I could go on and on about this game. Kudos to the environment artists, the game may be buggy, but the map they built is truly a masterpiece.


  5. I have not played as much as you, but from my limited experience ( ~20h )I partially disagree with your feedback :
    – I played the crafting system before the big change to it, but I still agree with you : it was very confusing, and not very fun. The only fun part was it was easy to cheat on it, by deconstructing cheap can from distributor, and deconstructing your own grenades, you were able to increase your amount of ressource for free.
    – I like the skill tree, and found some gameplay improvement from it. I was playing a sneaky handgun build, with high headshot/stealth multiplier, and a little bit of hacking to help
    – the cyberware are interesting and really change some gameplay – double jump, invisibility, time stretch, hacking, etc… Some are less interesting (more armor, yeaah) but it is expected
    – the cyberware slot to improve them is a mess, very hard to understand.


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